Friday, February 04, 2011

Pettitte Calls it a Career

As widely disseminated before, Andy Pettitte has called it quits.

I would have liked to have seen him go one more season. The 11-3 injury shortened 2010 has left me with a feeling of unfinished business. One more year would have put him over the 250 career win mark and further strengthen his HOF case, but Andy just isn't that guy and I respect that, because I have to (if I'm going to hate Favre for hanging on for too long that is).

On ESPN, Buster Olney very adamant that Andy will not get into the Hall due to his PEDs admission. He may be right, however, there is an intangible that Andy has that Clemens, Bonds, Rafael, and others don't have: Likability.

Over time, that could sway voters.

Here's the final line:

Regular Season: 240-138, .634 winning pct, 3.88 ERA

Post Season: 19-10, .655 winning pct, 3.83 ERA

2-Time 20 Game Winner, 8 Seasons Made it to the Fall Classic, winning 5 of them.



A true professional.

28 comments:

old professor said...

Andy Pettitte's post-season numbers may warrant some consideration for the hall, his regular season numbers would leave him short (reference Jack Morris). The PED issue as well as the anti-NY bias by writers will keep him out of the hall.

It would have been nice to see him come back for one more, however, he made it clear that while his arm felt good and his body felt good, his heart was not in it. He just didn't want to do it for one more year and you have to respect him for that.

Crash said...

There is no "nice guy" factor for the HOF. There may be an a$$hole factor, where the writers hold a grudge but likability has little to no effect.

Pettitte was never a dominant player for a prolonged period. He was always just consistently very good. Plus I agree with Old Prof, there is a large anti-NY bias by the BBWAA, throw in the PEDs with marginal #'s and there is no way he gets in. And his greatest post season stat is Wins. As we have seen the last couple years with CY Young voting, number of wins now has a diminished value thanks to the sabrmetirc guys. "Wins" are a team stat, not an individual stat. So Pettitte's 19 post-season wins means nothing to some of the voters. Another negative factor, if you look at his post-season ERA, he had multiple series's where it was over 10.00. 1998 ALCS (11.57), 1999 World Series (12.27), 2001 WS (10.00), 2002 ALDS (12.00). Plus a bunch more that were over 5.00: 1996 WS (5.91), 1997 ALDS (8.49), 2005 NLCS (5.11), 2009 WS (5.40). If you showed me those #'s alone, I would have to ask where to this "big game pitcher" reputation come from. We all remember 1996 and we've kind of used that brush to paint him for the last 15 years. Kind of like we want AJ to go back to the 2009 form...really? He had 1 "big game" (game 2 of WS). But look back his 2009 WS ERA was 7.00, his post season ERA was 5.27. And fans want that back??? I want game 2 back on a consistent basis.

In the end this is what I will remember about Pettitte: 1996 Game 5 World Series 1-0 win over Smoltz. This game is where he got the label of a big game pitcher. 2001 World Series, how he get lit up by Arizona because he was tipping his pitches. 2004...he left for the Astros and we all know what happened to the Yankees in the post season that year. He took less money to go to the Astros than to come back to the Yankees. Not sure if he would have changed any of that, but at a minimum he would have been better than Kevin Brown (ALCS ERA 21.60) and Javy Vazquez (ALCS ERA 9.95) combined.

Crash said...

Good to see Phil Hughes is already in camp. I think we can expect another 15-20 win season with a lower ERA. Closer to 4 or even something in the 3's would be ideal.

Mids said...

The Super Bowl to me was a bust.

Pittsburgh handed them the game and if the Giants could have mixed in one more win in the final 5 games, Green Bay wouldn't have even been in the playoffs!!!

Anyway - now attention shifts to the draft - GMen need lots and lots of O-Line, and its not too soon to be thinking Tight End either.

Buffalo Bills should trade down for more drafts picks and stockpile O-line and D-Line Particularly Ends

Mid said...

There's no Nice guy factor for the HOF - true, there is a human factor though - the voters are human, and when you like someone you're more apt to give the benefit of the doubt (why did Jim Rice or Eddie Murray take so long to get in again??)

Mid said...

On PHil Hughes in camp - its good, shows he's hungry.

Now that he's had a taste of a full season as a starter - I'm wondering what kind of ambition this guy has - is this his lock down year and sneaks in 20 wins while all eyes are on CC and AJ?

I say Yes.

old professor said...

I won't begin to talk football - pending any real progress there probably won't be a season next year.

Phil Hughes stated recently that he is concentrating on what went wrong with the second half of the season and seems to believe the problem was that he got away from his changeup. If that is all it was, look for him to have a great year.

Crash said...

Red Sox sign Alfredo Aceves.

Crash said...

The baseball world is buzzing over the demands of Albert Pujols and Michael Young. Pujols has set a deadline for contract extension talks or else he's hitting the open market. He's demanding A-Rod type money. Red Sox recently acquired A-Gon, Yankees have Tex...Cubs, Mets, and Dodgers are trying to dump payroll. And LA Angels haven't shown the willingness to sign players to long term rich deals. So where is Albert's market?

Then you have Michael Young...upset because the Rangers said they weren't going to trade him when they were clearly exploring that option. Now he has a list of 8 teams he would accept a trade, and in May his 10-5 rights kick in so that list goes to 0 and all trades can be vetoed. Let's see if only there was a team willing to pay an aging shortstop with limited range $16MM a year. Why does that sound familiar...

Anonymous said...

Isn't it amazing that ballplayers who are earning millions demand trades because they feel neglected or mislead by their organization. Odd how Michael Young has always been portrayed as a team player and a great teammate and one free agent signing by Texas (Beltre) has changed all of that.

Three years left on a contract for a 34 year old shortstop who moved to second then to third and then dh. Maybe just maybe, the Rangers kept moving him around because the players they were bringing in were better at that position??????

Now we have Joba showing up in Tampa 10-15 pounds heavier then when the season ended. Apparently he spent the off-season watching cartoons with his four year old son. Maybe someone should tell him that the off-season is for working out and staying in shape!!!

old professor said...

The injury bug has already hit the Yankees and camp hasn't even opened. Luis Vizciano had his contract voided by the team. He apparently injured his achilles tendon during winter ball and will not be able to pitch this season.

Pirates lose arbitration with Russ Olendorf. While his record was awful, he pitched well. Maybe the Yankees should look into bringing him back as the number 5.

Crash said...

The one move the Yankees made that may come back to bite them a little bit is letting Aceves go. Yes he missed last year with an injury, then he was stupid and fell off a bike or something. The Yankees knee jerk reaction was to release him immediately. Well he would have fit right in as their #4 or 5 in the rotation. He was making a ton of money, so it wasn't a financial move.

Now the Red Sox have him, have announce their plans to have as a starter and adds depth to their already deep rotation.

With all the Pujols talk, I want to play fantasy GM again...the Yankees could pursue him a couple different ways. But probably the most realistic is at DH/1B. Posada's contract is up, they will need a DH. If Pujols is willing to split time at DH with A-Rod and spell Tex at first, that's a possible fit. I know that's very unrealistic, but that would challenge any lineup as the best lineup in history. Possibly even better the '27 Yankees. Gardner, Jeter, Tex, Pujols, Cano, A-Rod, Swisher, Granderson, & Montero??? I would put that lineup against any.

old professor said...

Regarding Aceves - nice team player. However, he would have been out through the end of May. Yankees were talking to him about a minor league contract. But he decided to go to Boston. He will be successful when available and if (and that is a big if) he is healthy. He did not have the surgery to fix the disc problem in his back so in all likelihood it will reoccur iin the future.

Crash said...

Heard on MLB radio a caller suggest the Yankees make a trade with the Angels to get Scott Kazmir...Jim Bowden said that he doesn't think Kazmir is a better option than Mitre right now.

WOW!!! How far has Kazmir fallen. 3 years ago he was still a rising star with a dominant fastball and big hook. Now Mitre is a better option for a #5 starter!?!?!

Crash said...

Interesting trade rumor floating around. Twins looking to trade Liriano after they were unwilling to agree on an extension. Rumor is Nova and Joba for Liriano. Not sure if this is Twins source or NY source or just people speculating.

It's tempting but I think I would keep Nova.

old professor said...

No way I trade both Joba and Nova for Liariano. Liariano had a good come back year last year, after experiencing injuries the previous year. Having the arm problems he had at such an early stage of his career is not a good sign.

Let the string play out in Spring training and see what happens. I still think you might see Bonderman come into the Yankee camp and while he had a bad year, I think he would be a better option than Liriano.

Crash said...

I have lost all faith that you actually know what you are talking about anymore. Bonderman over Liriano??? No way.

Millwood is looking like more of a possibility as there is a report the Yankees "remain in contact".

Crash said...

There's a new sheriff in town for the Mets and he did what everyone wanted Omar to do for the last 2+ years, Oliver Perez has been released.

Albert Pujols has 2 days left to get a deal done by his own self imposed deadline. I can't see that working out so the assumption has to be he hits the free agent market. Any possible way the Yankees sign him? Money isn't an issue...not because they're the Yankees but because they has a lot coming off again...Presumably they have $$ left over from not signing Lee, they will have Jorge, Swisher, Marte, Martin, Andruw Jones, and Mitre off the books. That's $34MM in expiring contracts. It's just a question of where he would play. He has played OF and 3B before settling in at 1B. Not sure if he would want to move around again. Would be interesting...the only good thing is the Red Sox wouldn't realistically be in play either.

old professor said...

Crash, I am beginning to wonder whether the money invested in your education led to higher level thinking skill problems. Regarding Lariano versus Bonderman - Bonderman comes for free. Lariano will cost two or more players. Lariano has had major arm problems at a very young age an early in his career. Why trade for damaged goods.

Crash said...

Bonderman has had shoulder problems, Liriano had TJS...higher recovery rate for TJS than anything in the shoulder. At his best Liriano is an ace, a true #1 that can carry a team. He's a former all-star, averages more than a strikeout per inning, his career ERA is under 4, and gives up less than a hit an inning. At his best, Bonderman is a #5 guy, sub .500 record for his career and an ERA closer to 5 than 4.

The Twins literally got nothing in return for Santana...if the Yankees could get him without giving up Nova, Montero, or the B's I would do it. I would have to think long and hard about giving up Nova at this point. But the rumor of Joba and Nova is intriguing.

If the Cardinals do end up bring back Pujols, I could see the Yankees making a 2 or 3 year offer to Chris Carpenter (Cardinals would not likely pick up his option for $$ reasons if they re-sign Pujols). Carpenter is older, but since coming back from injuries he has been at the top of the league.

Crash said...

Oh the real reason I came here...CC is down 25 pounds (down to 290!!!) He hopes to be down another 5-10 pounds before leaving camp. This can only help him. I know Mussina is widely regarded as Cashman's best free agent signing, but CC may take that when all said and done.

Crash said...

Looks like I jumped the gun on Oliver Perez being released. I had heard this morning Jon Heymen was "reporting" that Perez was released. Now it looks like a meeting was held with Perez, Collins, and Alderson, and he will be given every opportunity to make the rotation out of spring.

old professor said...

To no surprise, there are all kinds of comments about Joba Chamberlain starting the season at AAA. As Cashman put it he has three more options and that gives the team the opportunity to move him down should he not prove himself.

They continue to play with this kids head. First he is a reliever, then a starter, then a starter with limits, then back to being a reliever, then let's have him compete for the fifth starters position -opps just joking he didn't perform well so back in the pen. Now - he isn't a lock to make the team. Chamberlain doesn't know whether he is coming or going.

Crash said...

I think at this point the best thing for Joba is being traded out of NY.

I wonder if Joba could actually sue the Yankees for grossly mishandling him, which lead to his injury. I think it is pretty widely accepted that athletes get injured through the normal course of business, but the Yankees really messed him up with the way they handled him. If he can establish the Yankees developmental process was negligent and the base cause of injury, he may have a case. I would guess there is some kind of agreement between the union and MLB and owners that says players can't do that, if not I would think it would have happened before.

old professor said...

With the state of Yankee pitching, I do not believe it is wise to part with a 25 year old pitcher or any of the young guns they have in the minors. The future is bright at two positions for the yankees: catcher and pitching - the team is deep at both. For the near future, the team is locked at first, second, short, and third. They have enough depth at catching to hold them until the young catchers (include Montero) are ready. I am not confident they have tremendous depth in the system in the outfield (if they did, they would not have looked at a diminished Andrew Jones as a number four outfielder).

Crash said...

I agree on the OF depth. They only have 1 maybe 2 prospects that are in the OF. Brandon Laird, who also plays 3B, and Slade Heathcott. Heathcott was the Yankees 1st round pick last year and struggled at rookie and A levels (combined .253 avg, 2 HR, 30RBI). He probably starts at A ball and if he's lucky move to AA before years end.

Laird made it to AAA last year but struggled a little when he got there. He may start at AAA, but given the veteran presence on the bench we won't see him until September. Next years free agent class is pretty thin at OF. Grady Sizemore is the only "name' I see but the Indians hold his option for next year. Need to see if he's healthy.

old professor said...

Laird is projected as one of the teams higher ranked prospects (not ahead of the pitching or catching prospects).

On a non-yankee related matter, Miguel Cabrera was arrested and charged with DWI in Florida. The guy has all the talent in the world and he will throw it all away or shorten his career because of scotch - SAD.

Crash said...

Yankees are saying if camp broke today Andrew Brackman would be in the rotation.

Prior is throwing some BP, looks good so far. So has Colon who is getting the start in spring opener against the Phillies tomorrow.

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