Sunday, November 25, 2007

Leftovers are gone - Where's the treadmill???

The Yanks payroll has grown (like most of us at the end of this week), and has secured a roster that will be good enough to get it back to the playoffs in my view. Is that good enough though? (no!)

As of now (about 130 days until pitchers and catchers report), I think we still have the same questions heading into '08 as we did this past season. Who is our first baseman going to be? Duncan, Giambi, Phillips, Betemit? Is our starting pitching good enough? What about the bullpen quality?

I am not sure what the implications of Duncan's blood clot mean to his playing baseball for '08. If he's healthy, I think he has what it takes to be a good first baseman. I also think the same of Phillips. What the hell do we do with Wilson Betemit? What about this guy Juan Miranda that is tooling around the minors - legit or trade bate?

I think the more time passes, the more likely it will be that Andy Pettitte is not coming back. That leaves us for now anyway, with a rotation of Wang, Kennedy, Chamberlain, Hughes and Mussina. It could be great - or it could prove to be a bust. I think the young 4 have what it takes to be great - does anyone else?
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General MLB: With the socialized luxury tax sharing system in place, how is it that there was not more of a market for a Tori Hunter or with the anticipated new deal for Santana?

The Mitchell Report is rumored to be released this week. Will it name names and what will that do to MLB a year after its most successful season? How or will players be punished if named, yet still managed to pass all drug tests?

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College FB: St. John Fisher (11-1) and Mt. Union College (12-0) are set to meet on 12/1 in the East Regional Finals. A rematch from last season's playoffs. SJF is the only team in D3 to give MUC a game the last two seasons. Many think this year's version of MUC is the best team in the history of D3 football and have outscored opponents by an average score 54-2. They have one common opponent in Ithaca College. MUC beat them by 24 points, Fisher beat them by 21 points. An early Vegas line has MUC over SJF by 4 1/2 touchdowns.

And finally, another November comes to a close, and we are left with another year asking for a Division I college football playoff system to determine the true champion. There is one undefeated team this year (Hawaii) and they won't even be given a shot to play for a title. Yet 4 teams with 1 loss (WVU, Kansas, Ohio State, and Missouri) will all be set to reap million dollar paydays and lobby why they are better than all the other 1 loss teams and should be considered to be the champion. Look, I'm not saying Hawaii is the best. What I am saying is that there should be a system in place to give them the opportunity to show that they are the best until someone beats them. And we don't have one - this seems to be the case every single season - will it ever change?

55 comments:

Crash said...

I love how right out the gate you are gain factual incorrect with pitchers and catchers reporting in about 130 days...130 days would actually put us past opening day. Trying using this thing that was invented several thousand years ago called a calender. Pitchers and catchers generally report about the 2nd week of February. That means we're inside 90 days before pitchers and catchers report (probably around 85 or so).

Unfortunately after that you raise credible questions regarding first base, the rotation and bullpen. I personally feel 1B is not that bad. platooning Giambi and Phillips along with Duncan spelling those 2 and the outfielders is sufficient. Especially, if Giambi can put together a healthy season. That is a big IF I know, but keep in mind this is most likely Giambi's walk year, as the Yankees will probably not pick up his $20M option for the 2009 season.

Rotation could be set if they believe in the young guns. We will not mention the "S" word here.

Bullpen seems to be the weakest link and could be the downfall. Farnsworth has proven himself useless...but he's all there is right now. Rumor is Cashman wants to bring back Vizcaino. You probably see Olendorf in the pen as well, if he's not traded. Free agent wise there isn't a lot available. Guys like Kerry Wood, Jeremy Affeldt, and Jorge Julio are available, but are high risk/high reward type of guys.

As for D3 football, no one really cares but for the purpose of this board I'll support SJF. Is the game on TV, maybe on the Ocho.

Overall a pretty good post Mid.

old professor said...

Regarding the bullpen - Olendorf will be in the pen. One free agent that you did not mention was Scott Linebrink. The Yankees tried to pick him up from San Diego last season, but failed. Instead, San Diego traded him to the Brewers. I don't believe he has been signed by anyone yet. Don't be surprised to see him with the Yankees. Regarding Farnsworth, maybe Girardi can fix him. Another free agent the Yankees have always been interested in is Aubrey Hauf. He was released a couple of weeks ago. he would be an upgrade defensively and offensively over Giambi at first base.

If Vizciano comes back, Girardi will use not abuse him. In August, Girardi made a comment while in the booth about bullpen use - if you have people in the pen, you have to use all of them not just a few. Time will see if he will adopt that philosophy.

Mid said...

I'm not sold on Vizcaino. I agree about Olendorf - he'll be in the pen.

I thought that more times than not, after Torre started using Farnsworth more sensibly he got better (still needs to learn how to throw a first pitch strike though).

I don't really have any expectations for: Britton, Bruney, or Ramirez.

Mid said...

On a side note, while i don't like the popularity contest these politicians for president are running in terms of who can find endorsors faster than the other guys or gal - I did think it was cool that Huckabee worked Chuck Norris into one of his infomercials.

The Scooter said...

First Base:

I'm happy with a Giambi/Phillips or a Giambi/Duncan platoon. If Giambi can stay healthy (granted that's a big if) then he can still be an offensive force.

Starting Pitching:

This is a work in progress. We can't even begin to judge it until we see what Pettitte is going to do and we see where Santana winds up.

My best case scenario is

Santana
Pettitte
Wang
Joba
Kennedy

Of course I have Hughes being moved in the Santana deal and Moose being used in long/relief or spot starting.

Bullpen:

Moose out of the pen in long relief, will give you some flexibility. Looks like we are stuck with Farnsworth for one more year. Even if he finally wkes up and "gets it", he can still only be used for an inning every other day, so to me he is all but irrelevant.

Prof, I think I remember reading last week that Linebrink either signed with someone or was about to. Can't remember what team though.

I really like what I saw from the Ramirez kid last year. If he can find some consistency, he would be a great set-up man. His change up looked devastating at times.

Crash, sorry but you'll have to listen to the SJF game on HAM radio.

Crash said...

Linebrink did sign somewhere a couple days ago, and the Cubs re-sign Wood to a 1-year deal.

I heard on ESPN this morning that the L'il Boss Hank was in direct negotiations with the Twins for a possible Santana deal. This is good and bad. If the new Boss is doing the deal you can all but guarantee if a deal happens it will be to the Yankees. But it will also mean they will overpay to get him. Hopefully Cashman has Hank's ear and won't part with too much...I hope that doesn't mean Hughes and Kennedy. As much as I want Santana that is too steep a price.

Mid said...

The pitchers that I don't want to see packaged is: Kennedy, Chamberlain, Ohlendord and White.

If it is Melkey and Hughes I'm ok with it. If it is Hughes and a van full of DeSalvo, Clippard, Bruney, Henn and Wright I'd be OK with it.

Mid said...

Given that the Twins play in a dome, who knows, maybe Mussina would be open to being moved as well.

The Scooter said...

Mid said...

"Given that the Twins play in a dome, who knows, maybe Mussina would be open to being moved as well."

Yea Mid, maybe the Twins will take Farnsworth and Giambi too.

I hope that was tongue in cheek.

old professor said...

The Twins have made it clear the package for Santana has to include Chamberlain, Cano, Cabrera and a fourth individual. The additional individual mentioned is Tabata.

The Scooter said...

Come on Prof. Have you never heard of the concept of "negotiation"? The Twins know damn well that the Yankees are not trading Joba....and are pretty sure that they aren't trading Cano....but they HAVE to start the conversation there if they hope to pry Hughes away.

The Scooter said...

The Star Ledger has reported that the Yankees have reached out to the agents for reliever David Riske. Last year Riske, 31, was 1-4 with a 2.45 ERA in 69 2/3 innings with the Kansas City Royals.

If you ask me, this is a Riske proposition..........Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

old professor said...

Scooter, having spent a good deal of my life negotiating with unions, boards, etc, I understand what goes on. However, when the Yankees offered Hughes, the Twins said no they wanted Chamberlain. I do not believe the Yankees will part with Cano and I believe it is a mistake to part with Cabrera now that signing Hunter is out.

I know that Cabrera wore down at the end of the season, but at age 22 there is more upside to him then downside.

More to the point, I believe the Twins don't have any intention of trading Santana to the Yankees, but are using the Yankees as a leverage with other teams to exact a bigger set of prospects. (Let's be real, they apparently asked Boston for Ellsburg and Bucholz - ya that will really happen.

Your assessment of Riske might be correct, but the options to improve the bullpen(which they must do)are not very many.

The Scooter said...

Prof, why would the Twins have no intention of trading Santana to the Yankees? They are not in their division and they have all the potential pieces to make a deal work. Unless you tell me there is no way they will trade him within the American League, I can't really take it seriously. The Twins will trade Santana to the team they feel gives them the best deal in return...PERIOD. Remember, Santana has a full no trade clause, so that pretty much narrows down the Twins trading partners to very good teams in major markets i.e Dodgers, Mets, Yanks, Red Sox, the 2 Chicago teams and the Angels.

Of these, the Mets don't have what it would take to get a deal done (unless they move Reyes...wont happen); The Cubs won't spend the money after the Zambrano and Soriano deals; The Angels need Miguel Cabrera more than they need a pitcher; and as for the Chisox, there is no way the Twins trade him to a division rival. That leaves the Dodgers, Yankees and Red Sox. I think the Yankees have the greatest need of those three, so they will probably give up the most. I say that it's 60-40 that Santana is in Pinstripes on opening day.

So your experience in negotiating with unions should tell you that it is ofetn a very long process....both sides ask for the moon and inevitably settle on something much closer to reality.

Again, I think Melkey is a nice little player...but I think his value is at it's peak right now. He's a .270 hitter without pop, who plays a slightly above average center field. His best asset is his above average arm. Trade him now and sign Aaron Rowand.

Cano, on the other hand, is Rod Carew with more pop. He is primed to be a star.

Middle Relief (King of Yankee knowledge) said...

Old Prof and Scooter - You're both almost right on a few things, but primarily you guys are wrong on all fronts.

What is going down is exactly what I said. Twins asked for Cabrera, Chamberlain, and Duncan. Yanks inserted Hughes, Twins initially walked away.

Hate to break it to you - Cabrera has peaked - ship him out the door while there is still value.

Cano is not, nor will be apart of the conversation.

The Mets, with Omar as their GM, are no longer a factor in MLB's serious free agent and trade deals.

old professor said...

Scooter, your analysis on the actual teams the Twins can trade with: Red Sox, Dodgers and Yankees is probably accurate. Let's narrow the list a little bit further: The Red Sox have an excellent pitching staff (probably the best in the American League though it pains me to say so). Dice-K will be with them for awhile, Lester and Bucholz will not be traded because that is the future and both have proven themselves. Schilling has another year and Wakefield keeps ticking. In addition, unless the Red Sox are willing to part with two of the young pitchers listed above and through in Ellsbury, they have nothing to offer the Twins. The Dodgers have significant holes to fill besides their pitching rotation. Their offense was weak at best and defensively, they were mediocre. By the process of elimination, it leaves the Yankees. Let's hypothesis (okay I have a dictionary by my computer) the Yankees strike a deal with the Twins, they still have to work out a contract with Santana. He has already turned down a four year 80 million offer from the Twins (it may have been 90m), so right off the top the Yankees will have to offere 5 to 6 years and in excess of $100m. If they have learned anything from contract situations, long-term contracts with pitchers normally don't workout in the long run. They are risky at best. Pavano, Hampton, and Nagel should ring true (and no I am not saying those three are in the same stature as Santana- just that long term deals with pitchers are very risky).

The Scooter said...

Mid, where does this fantasy that you keep spewing that the Twins asked for Duncan come from? I honestly think that you make this stuff up and then in a day or two you actually start believing it.

The Scooter said...

Prof what would scare me from the Red Sox is a package of Bucholz, Elsbury and maybe a Craig Hanson. I think that trumps whatever the Yankees would be willing to offer. It will come down to how badly do the Sox want to keep Santana from the Yankees.

As for the money and then length of the deal, I think you throw all of that out when it comes to someone of Santana's stature. If the Yankees can work out the trade, they will have no problem signing him...they already know what his contract parameters are.

Crash said...

Scooter the Sox will need more than Ellsbury, Bucholz and Hanson to get the deal done. But Bucholz and Ellsbury are the 2 key components.

The only certainty in this mess is Joba isn't going anywhere...AND that is not a deal breaker for the Twins. Duncan may be traded this off season but not to the Twins. Everyone else is fair game with L'il Boss involved.

Mid (Oracle of MLB) Relief said...

Gammons on XM's Home Plate: Hughes, Sanchez, and an outfielder is the Twins asking price.

57 said...

Let me say this, and open up your mind. Minnesota just lost their center fielder to free agency. Which NY center fielder has been inconsistent (at best) and needs to understand game situations in LCS games and learn to.... wait for it.... wait for it........SWING THE GOD DAMN BAT!!!!.. Yes, that's right Carlos Beltran... Bottom line, the Mets have not done much with him, and I don't think would miss him tremendously. Put Gomez in center field..

The reason for my Beltran rant...

Santana for Beltran, Oliver Perez, Joe Smith, Aaron Heilman and Lastings Millegde. I deal I would do tomorrow. Heilman will love the deal, because now he'll be a starter.

I would take #57 over #15 any day of the week. So long Carlos, hello Johann...

57 said...

Why is A-Rod's deal taking so long?

Did you all seem as suspicious as I was listening to his MVP media conference call last week when he stated that 'He Loved NY and wants to be in NY' but never said the Yankees...just NY...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I just thought that was very interesting.

David Wright for Johann Santana straight up if we're getting A-Rod.

The Scooter said...

57, are you drinking during the week again?

old professor said...

Scooter, you may be right about 57 drinking during the week and probably just before he came onto the blog. 57, as for why things are taking too long, the Commissioner's Office had to approve a portion of the contract because of the the revenue sharing part before the parameters could be set. Apparently, he has issues with bonuses or revenue from the team being shared for milestones in someone's career. So the revenue deal had to be structured around public appearances and signings. The Commissioner just signed off on the deal though he didn't like it. The deal will give A-Rod another $30 million on top of the $275m making the deal worth $305million.

One last thing about the Santana Deal and let's do this by the numbers and assume Pettitte doesn't come back: No trade rotation: Wang, Mussina, Hughes, Chamberlain Kennedy, and ????. Only one spot to fill! Now assume the Yankees package Hughes and Kennedy for Santana, the rotation would be Santana, Wang Mussina, Chamberlain, ???, ???. The Yankees would have to fill two slots in the rotation versus just one. In addition, or is it subtraction, Pettitte won 15 games, Santana could fill the void left should Pettitte not come back. But for maybe four additional wins in replacing Pettitte, you create two big holes in the rotation. The math doesn't add up.

Mid said...

Did the Yanks announce they were going to a 6 man rotation?

I thought they needed 5, which they have in Wang, Chamberlain, Ian, Hughes, and Mussina.

If one of them gets hurt you have your pick from White, Karstens (of course!), or Igawa.

The Scooter said...

They won't give up both Hughes and Kennedy, nor will they have to.

The deal that will ultimately get done is Hughes, Melky and Tabata/Jackson for Santana...write it down.

Damn I am starting to sound like 57.

The Scooter said...

Off topic......Is there a better name in college football than Houston Nutt?

Crash said...

If the Twins are asking for Hughes, Sanchez, and an OF (I think we agree that it would be Melky) that isn't bad at all and seems fair. I would try to switch Kennedy for Hughes, and then offer a 4th player as well. The 4th player could be a 2nd tier prospect, but the package would be more than what the Red Sox would offer. I guess technically they could offer Bucholz and Lester, but Theo wouldn't do that. He may leak that to drive the price up, but it would be just talk.

Just keep Johan out of Boston.

57 in case you forget Beltran is due to make $18.5M each of the next 4 years. They wouldn't offer Hunter who is a better all-around player $15M a season, and they're trading the best pitcher in the game because they won't offer him that much, but you in your great wisdom want them to trade for it??? Even if the Mets agreed to eat half of that salary they wouldn't take Beltran. Keep dreaming. The deal the Mets need to make to get Santana would be Reyes, Miledge, and Pelfry.

Old Prof needs to learn how to count to 5, unless Girardi announced they are going with a 6 man rotation. And I wouldn't worry about the #5 spot, there some decent pitchers on the FA market to fill that spot. Other teams would look at those guys and hope to make them a #2 or 3 starter, the Yankees would have the luxury of sliding him at 4 or 5. Guys like Colon or Garcia. As long as you don't expect Cy Young quality starts, the result will be fine. I would take Colon against any other teams #5 starter.

old professor said...

Before the Yankees start shipping Cabrera and/or Tabata to the Twins do you think it would be beneficial for the Yankees to sign another centerfielder? From a DEFENSIVE standpoint, Cabrera was superior to anyone the Yankees could put in the outfield. As the season moved towards its conclusion, it was also obvious that Damon was a better leftfielder than a centerfielder and that with Cabrera and Damon in the outfield, the Yankees were definately stronger than with Matsui and Damon.

I do not want to see the Yankees start 2008 with Damon in center and Matsui in left. And IF the other outfielder is Tabata he is a five tool candidate - and I believe Scooter had him projected to be the Yankees Rightfielder in 2008 and the next big star on the Yankee horizon.

It still comes down to the Twins asking for too much for a guy that will go out every fifth day to pitch. If Hughes is the stud pitcher the Yankees claimed he would be, then put him out their every fifth day and let him do the job. The Yankees have done a great job rebuilding their minor league system and should not go back to a philosophy that destroyed it.

Time is on the Yankees side. They know Boston will not give up the players the Twins are asking for and it would seem at this point the Yankees are bidding for Santana against themselves.

Mid said...

It was Mid that has Tabata as the next big thing.

The Scooter said...

If they had to move Melky, I don't think the Yankees would go into the season with Damon in center. There are still an abundance of center fielders available...and all you would really need is someone who could go catch the ball, because anyone you bring in would perform better offensively than Melky.

Here are a few options in order of what I feel to be likeliness:

Mike Cameron (so Damon plays the first 25 games in center)

Aaron Rowand (my personal favorite)

Gary Matthews Jr. (Available now since the Hunter signing)

David Dejesus (there is talk that the Royals are seriously in the hunt for Andrew Jones, making Dejesus available)

Andrew Jones (I don't see the Yankees dealing with Boras, but stranger things have happened)

Prof as for Tabata, I would hate to see him go, as I have projected him in Right Field for the Yankees in 2009 (check the archives, Mid); but when one of the best pitchers of our generation is available at a time when he is just entering his prime, then all bets are off.

I too would love to substitute Kennedy for Hughes, but let's be honest; that ain't gonna get it done.

Crash said...

A deal with the Royals for DeJesus would be very nice. Old Prof. as a history buff, I think it's peculiar how you pull it out to support your theories on young pitchers but neglect it on stud 5 tool OF prospects. Do we have to bring up Juan Rivera??? Besides Tabata may be the new "crown jewel" but remember the name Colin Curtis. He is better in all categories and has a higher ceiling. Tabata is younger so he may be ranked as a higher prospect by the likes of Baseball America this year, but if Tabata is #1, Curtis is #1A.

By the way I had a friend who went down to the Dominican Republic recently for a work related charity that the Yankees were also a part of. He hung out with Melky, Tony Pena, Cano, and Edwar Ramierez...from the pictures Melky is FAT and out of shape. Reminds me a lot of Cabrera in Florida.

Scooter, the Angels are not open to trading Matthews Jr as they need to spell the aging and often injured Anderson and Vlad. Expect Matthews to platoon between LF and RF as necessary with Hunter solidly in CF.

I've come to a realization. I would rather hold all the kids not trade a single one. As a fan I would be willing to accept the results of the season with the existing pitching talent. If they don't make the playoffs so be it. If they're out in the 1st round, been there done that for the last 3 years. I know this is a total 180 turn on my Santana stance. I'm like, if they do the trade great, if they don't I'm OK with that too.

The Scooter said...

Crash, Don't lose your nerve now...The Yankees are so close to locking up Championship #27.....Santana puts them over the hump.

You have to grasp the brass ring when it is in reach.

Crash said...

I'm not saying I don't want Santana, I'm just saying that if they decide to keep what they got I'm OK with that.

How about trading for someone where the asking price isn't as high? I'm now reading on ESPN several other name brand pitchers may be available.

Dan Haren of the A's may be available. He was lights out in the first half of the year but showed a little fatigue down the stretch.

Also a available is the ultimate high risk/high reward guy Mark Prior. He's still young, but hasn't stayed healthy. His health concerns drop the asking price and if you get one healthy season he could be the best pitcher in the league...even better than Santana.

What about Erik Bedard? Orioles say everyone is available. He's younger than Santana, hasn't pitched nearly as many innings, and was 13-5 with 221K's for the Orioles. He's proven he can compete and be successful in the tough AL East (including 2-0 in 3 starts against the Yanks, and 1-0 in 2 starts against the Sox).

I think if I was ranking my preference of those guys it would be Bedard, Haren, and then Prior.

Crash said...

Oh and one last thing...much to the delight of 57, it looks like the Mets may be players in the Santana deal after all. With the Twins trading their SS to Tampa for a RF, they created a way for the Mets to enter the Santana market. It would mean every deal starts and ends with Reyes going to Minnesota.

old professor said...

Crash, The Twins also received a shortstop in the trade with the Rays. The kid's name is Brandon Harris. He has played with the Nationals, Cubs and Rays. He was an excellent fielder and hit around .285. Harris is around 26 years old and may prove to be a very serviceable piece of that trade. The Twins also landed Delmon Young who can play centerfield and did so for the Rays last year. While the Twins may want to use him elsewhere, this may be an indication they are no longer interested in obtaining Cabrera as part of any deal with the Yankees if a trade still seems likely.

The Scooter said...

Most view Brandon Harris as more of a utility man. There are no indications that the Twins plan on using Delmon Young in Center. They still want Melky or Elsbury.

What if the Yankees threw in Betamit to play third? Do you think a package of Hughes, Melky, Betamit and Tyler Clippard gets it done?

old professor said...

Putting Betemit into any deal would mean the Yankees would have to go out and find a quality utility man. Not sure who that would be - don't say Cairo.

By the way I seemed to miss the announcement on the Yankees signing Jose Molina. He is now under contract with them for the next two years. Bringing him back gives them a real quality backup catcher who can give Posada more rest then he has had in recent years. Molina is also a good insurance policy should Posada be injured and unavailable for a short period.

There also seems to be information circulating that the Yankees are looking at Ron Mahay for their pen though the market for relief pitchers was recently driven up to where the Yankees might not want to spend the money to bring him in.

Crash said...

To back-up Scooter on this Young is not a natural centerfielder and he played CF sparingly last year, he was in right field most of the time. Scooter was very generous calling Harris a utility player. He is a fringe major leaguer at best. He can't field and his bat is average at best. I love how you claim Jeter is the worse defensive SS you have ever seen, but you think Harris is an "excellent" fielder. When you look at the # of chances and compare them to the # of errors your excellent fielder would have easily surpassed Jeter and lead the league in errors at the position. He was actually so bad at SS the Rays tried him at 3B and 2B before they had enough and dumped him in Minnesota. Don't get me wrong, I like seeing a local kid at the MLB level, but I mean how bad do have to suck to be traded from Tampa?

Crash said...

And it's good to see the Newark Star Ledger confirming what I have been saying for weeks...The Yankees have been in contact with Aaron Rowand's agent expressing their interest in the free agent because Melky would be part of any deal for Santana.

old professor said...

Crash, as usual your statistical data is wrong. Harris bated .286 for Tampa last season had a slugging percentage of .434 and had 12 homeruns. Fielding wise as a shortstop, he had a fielding percentage of .968 committing 11 errors and as a second baseman had a fielding percentage of .994 with only one error. They tried another rookie at ss and had to take out insurance policies along the first base line. But it was not Brandon Harris. Oh and by the way Jeter's fielding percentage playing at shortstop last year was .970. Pretty close to Harris.

Mid said...

The Mets GM, as evidenced by about two dozen notes in my inbox at my work email . . . apparently was on the radio today, saying that they would not be participants in the Santana sweepstakes if it meant parting with Jose Reyes. .

Bout time they re-signed Molina - what'd they give him $14.5 mm for the next two years with a players option for a third????

(joking)

Crash said...

Wow...I know now why they call you Old Prof. you're trying to argue against me and you're throwing stats out that support my argument. That is exactly my point, your "excellent fielder" had a lower fielding percentage at SS than Jeter, who you claim is the worse fielding SS ever. And given that he had a lower fielding percentage in fewer chances, that means if you give the guy more chances he will have made a lot more errors. Even more than Jeter. So if you're using fielding percentage as the criteria for "excellence" in fielding, then by your definition (please reference Brendan Harris' fld %), Jeter is even better than excellent...perhaps even worthy of those 3 Gold Gloves.

Now back to Santana, the Sox are offering CoCo Crisp and John Lester (and 2 minor leaguers, 1 is SS, so they must really love that excellent fielding SS they just traded for)? If they can't do better than that, you might as well fit Santana for pinstripes. To confirm that Stick Michael has said he is open to trading Kennedy or Hughes for Santana.

Mid said...

Ok - this is what I heard on home plate - Crash says it is contradictory than what he heard on MM.

Yanks offered - Hughes, Cabrera and Tabata. With a 72 hour window to come to contractual terms with JS (I'm smelling 6 years 120ish). As a result of the Delmon Young deal they told the Yanks they want two pitchers and that's it (Kennedy and Hughes).

Sox have offered 4 players most notable being Lester and Crisp. Twins want the Rookie of the Year winner instead of Crisp.

The Scooter said...

That's not what my sources are telling me, Mid.

Yankees offered Melky, Tabata and KENNEDY......the Twins are asking that Hughes be substituted for Kennedy...the Yanks are considering.

Crash said...

Gamons on M&M confirmed the Sox offer that we have discussed. The proposed Yankee deal would be as follows: Hughes, Cabrera, and at least one other minor leaguer, but most likely 2, Austin Jackson & Alan Horne. Jackson is a OF prospect, Horne to be used in the bullpen. Gammons believes the Sox know they won't get Santana and will offer the same package to Oakland for Dan Haren. Harem is a better fit for the Sox, he's not a true ace but a hell of a #2. Oh yeah and while the Yanks are paying Santana huge $ Haren will make a collective $9M over the next 2 seasons with a team option for another year at $6M. Theo is good.

old professor said...

I am really getting tired of all the speculation regarding the Twins and Santana. The Twins are playing the card that the Sox and Yankees will do whatever it takes to keep Santana away from the other team. The asking price for Santana is too steep for either team and both should tell the twins to go crap in a hat.

By the way Alan Horne is not projected for the Yankees pen, but for the rotation. I realize Michael Kay is not a good name to throw around, but the term he uses to describe Horne is phenomenal.

When Giambi was a free agent, he was tagged as the missing piece for the next Yankee Championship. He never delivered. Now the Yankees have the potential to have a dominant pitching staff with three young studs and they seem to consider Santana the missing piece - one pitcher will not bring the Yankees a world championship.

While Beckett was dominant for Boston this year, without the contribution from the other starters, they don't get the championship. (Especially the contribution from the pen).

The Scooter said...

Prof, why don't you ask 57 about the Mets' "Generation K". Three young "can't miss" pitchers who were going to be the building block for a Queens Dynasty.

My point is that the kids, while highly touted are certainly no sure thing. Santana on the other hand is as sure a thing as there is in baseball. An ACE with a capital A just approaching the prime of his career.

And you can throw around Michael Kay's "phenomenal" tag all you want..the fact is, the only one in this conversation who we absolutely KNOW is "phenomenal" is Johan Santana.

Santana is the true missing piece. If '07 taught us anything, its that you need to have someone to match up against Carmona/Sabathia and Beckett in a playoff series.

The Scooter said...

and if you don't believe me:



"We need a No. 1. It's a need in October. No question about it."

~Jorge Posada~

Mid Santana said...

Had Wang stepped it up this past post season, I'm wondering if a comment like that gets made.

Wang while solid and an innings eater, just is not that stopper like presence.

The Scooter said...

I couldn't agree with you more, Mid. Wang proved that he is a #2 starter who has benefited from some solid run support. A nice pitcher, but nobody's "stopper" for sure.

The Mets just made their big deal for the year, trading Milledge to the Nationals for a light hitting catcher (Brian Schneider)and a mediocre right fielder (Ryan Church).

That's not exactly going to keep the Yankees off the back page, Omar.

Crash said...

Wow if that's an accurate report, that is perfect example of how fast kids can fall, just two seasons ago you probably could have traded Milledge for Santana straight up. Everyone wanted this kid with all the potential, then nothing. Now he's traded for a fungo and a sack of BP balls. This is exactly why the Yankees can part with one of those young pitchers. Trade them at peak value.

The Scooter said...

Great point, Crash.

Crash said...

I'm glad to see the Yankees are holding their ground on the Santana deal. They have apparently made a final offer and are demanding an answer from the Twins by today. If declined the Yanks will focus on Haren or Bedard. They have said the following players are "untouchable" if Hughes is include: Joba, Cano, Kennedy, Horne, Jackson, Bentance, and Tabata. That means the Twins would probably get Sanchez or SS Alberto Gonzalez, in addition to Melky & Hughes.

If the reports are accurate the Twins are playing themself right out of the trade with both the Yanks and the Sox. They are asking the Sox for Lester, Bucholz, and Ellsbury. No way Theo does that. It looks like the Twins have the final offer from both teams and need to make a decision or both teams will move on.

The Scooter said...

I'm sorry, but if the Yankees have agreed to give up Hughes and Melky, there is no way they can let Horne or Jackson be a deal breaker. The only one high on Horne is Old Prof and who knows if Jackson is another Lastings Milledge?

Make the deal Brian and lets go win a World Championship in '08.

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